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Wednesday, September 24, 2008

Cloninger Mill Park - 1st meeting - Preliminary Proposal

I went to the meeting on the proposed Cloninger Mill Park tonight thinking that it was going be a positive discussion on preliminary proposals about the master plan. This meeting is to be followed by a second meeting where a more definitive plan will be shown. The meeting broke down somewhat into a rant of hypothetical conjecture from Cloninger Mill area homeowners mistakenly aimed at the developers.

City of Hickory Parks and Recreation Director Mack McLeod was the first to speak. He gave a historical perspective about the origins of the park proposal. In 1979, a Hickory Park Master Plan was developed which designated the Cloninger Mill site as a future site of interest. In 1997 the Master Plan was reviewed and Cloninger Mill came to the forefront as a good area to develop a new park. They realized at that time that it would need to be developed as a passive recreational park. Money subsequently dried up and until now the park has not been a priority.

A passive recreational park has outdoor activities compatible with preserving natural resources such as wildlife habitats and floodplain protection. This park would allow for limited picnicking, walking trails, bike trails, and scenic views of nature near Lake Hickory. It could even host an amphitheatre. All of this could be done without costing the city very little, while enhancing what is an undeveloped asset.

Site Solutions (http://www.sitesolutionspa.com/PROFILE.HTM) is the firm that has been chosen to develop the site. Derek Williams gave an overview about what developing a passive park on this site involved. He displayed a map of the proposed 75-acre site, which included 2 areas that would be held back from the proposed parks development.

One of the two areas abuts Hwy127. This area would be used as a proposed commercial site. The other area, at the opposite side of the park, would be used for residential real estate development. There are full utilities capabilities and the city could sell these pieces of real estate and infuse those proceeds back into the park.

Jeff Ashbaugh gave a more thorough overview of the land, its terrain, and the issues involved in the development of the project. The area is heavily wooded, there is a natural waterfall at the center of the park (though it is more of a runoff area), the property has many steep graded slopes, and there are very few level areas. That is the reason that the area is proposed as a passive park.

Interjecting into the discussion were mostly residents of the area. Many seemed not to support the proposed project. One issue is that of parking. The people didn’t like the proposed parking areas in the preliminary drawings.

The residents didn’t like the thoughts of projected increases in traffic along Cloninger Mill Road, 9th st ne, and 45th ave lane. They stated that children play out there and there is already a high level of traffic on those streets.

Several people told developers that there needed to be a traffic light where 9th st ne meets Cloninger Mill Rd. The developers tried to explain that that may be proposed in the master plan, but that was the city’s responsibility. Mr. Ashbaugh said that maybe these residents might want to talk to the city about a proposed traffic light. He said that the developers would look into it.

Another issue that was expounded upon was that of security. Issues of robbery, break-ins, and drugs were brought up. Residents stated that there were already issues of crime in those neighborhoods and they were worried that they would worsen. .

One lady seemed frightened at the thoughts of the park buttressing her back yard. She asked about the definition of a buffer and what was the state code on that buffer. Mr. Ashbaugh stated that he believed it to be 12 feet, but that they were going to make it much greater than that.. The lady cackled that she wanted a buffer the distance of a football field.

Another lady asked about where proposed picnic areas would be. When shown the general area, she firmly scoffed that it was in her backyard. Mr. Williams pointed more specifically that the area was "a football field away" from her house.

One gentleman attending the meeting said that he lived in northwest Hickory, within walking distance of Geitner Park and Hilton Park. He stated that maybe the residents of the Cloninger Mill area might want to talk to residents of northwest Hickory about the effects of parks on their area and the implications a park might have on the Cloninger Mill area.

They had people at the meeting take five dots and place them on a list of ten areas of activity interest in the proposed park. Mr. Williams and Mr. McLeod discussed and then promised to put the proposed design plans for the park online. There were various discussions taking place, as I left.

In the Hounds Opinion, This meeting was embarrassing to this city. People! This was a proposal! Why were you frothing at the mouth? We can have better and more positive roundtable (sort of) discussions about PROPOSED (!!!) ideas. God, no wonder we can’t move forward on real issues, when you act like this about a park.

Someone in that neighborhood had to have been fostering this discontent before the meeting. It was more than obvious that many of the people had made up their mind, on the subject of a park, before attending this meeting. When it comes to a park, I think that you can afford to come in with a somewhat open mind.

I believe that it is alright to have concerns. That was what this meeting was about. It was about giving you a voice. They wanted to hear what you had to say, but why be so abrasive towards developers about a park. Those concerns would be better served by contacting the Mayor, City Council, or City Staff. It was embarrassing to treat people from a top-notch development firm (and guests of this city) the way that you did.

I personally believe that the idea of this park is a sound one. These people said that they had illegal activity going on in this area and they believed it would be exacerbated by the development of this park. I believe that is wrong on many, many levels. I think this would be an enhancement to your area and make it a lot more secure.

These residents can make a deal with the city and developers to put some recreation equipment on this property for their kids and then their kids won’t be playing in the streets. These developers have some of the best engineers in the world working for them. They aren’t going to slap this park up willy-nilly.

I really think that the parking situation will be resolved. There are a couple of access points that can easily be engineered to be more agreeable to these residents. Heck, they will probably get their light and/or new residential exiting roads to Cloninger Mill Road. This could be re-engineered so that residential exits will be better than they currently are. That is win-win-win.

Why so dour? Sometimes a gift is a gift and there doesn’t always have to be a catch. I wish I could have this park in my backyard. A place to walk or run besides the streets, the same for biking, a nice place to have a picnic, a developed setting to go sit and meditate by the lake, and/or a cleaned up site that has a reduced chance of wildfire. Ask people that live on a golf course, there are many more benefits than the minimal intrusion to privacy – and how would that be guaranteed anyway?

This will be an enhancement to the area and many people will be more attracted to an area with such a development so close. The aesthetics, along with simple supply and demand, will mean that you have a great real estate investment on your hands. And guess what? It will be the cheapest investment, with the least risk and the biggest reward that you could ever dream of.

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

Very well put! The nearby residents SHOULD be concerned, but in a positive way, in order to have things done in a way to benefit them. They live there, they know. They do need to stay involved though..not just attend a few meetings and then throw up their hands. They may think of something the developers haven't considered.

Very good reporting job!

Anonymous said...

Well stated Mr. Shell! I totally agree with you. The park would increase home values around the neighborhood and houses would also sell faster. Anyone who does not want to be near a park must be nuts. Build one near me. I would love it. Especially with gas prices so high now. I would not have to load up the kids to get to the park.

ant. a. said...

howdy hound,

thanks for getting over there and typing up the goings-on. you do much better reporting than the HDR. those citizens may be strident but at least they're involved. apathy seems to be the sin of the age and not, unfortunately, limited to one generation. still, it'd be better if people were conversational, educated, and willingly to listen.

Penelope said...

It seems to be a tradition in this area that people like to make up their minds without first listening to what others have to say.

That being stated let me preface the rest of my comments by saying that I read what you wrote, JT, and
I think I understand both sides of this issue.

The folks that live in this neighborhood are probably somewhat used to having a reasonable amount of peace and quiet, what with having a large unused parcel of land in their backyards. Some have come to expect a certain level of privacy in their homes and yards that will almost certainly disappear, buffer or no, with the development of a park. There may be a few residents in the area that love seeing the native wildlife that will almost certainly disappear along with the wide swaths of foliage.

All of that is well and good, but there is also the other side of the coin. Those people do not own the property behind their homes. Presumably, they could have bought it. They did not. The City of Hickory did so.

They should not expect it to remain as virgin woodland for eternity. There are too many money-obsessed number crunchers in this
world. If the city had not purchased that land, somebody else would have. They should be thankful that the city wants to transform what I take to be the majority of that land into a park because some other purchaser might have transformed it into something far worse. It could have been a new mall, with nothing but concrete and asphalt. It might have been a trailer park. It could have been a multi-story apartment building. Take your pick. Any of those choices would have transformed your little dream houses into utter nightmares. Some in that neighborhood have already said that crime is a problem. A well-maintained park would almost certainly provide less of a hiding place to prospective criminals. I would also assume that the city police force will be more likely to patrol city owned property when said property is accessible to them.

It would be nice if the folks that like constant growth and perpetual development would move away and go to a big city somewhere else, but that's not going to happen. Those of us that like small town America should be happy with small victories such as it sounds this park may be.

James Thomas Shell said...

I agree with a lot of what you said Penelope, except the "smalltown" comment. I was just wondering if you live in Hickory, because this isn't a small town. There are 41,000 to 43,000 people that live in Hickory proper (depending on estimates) and by the time the census comes out in 2010, we are going to be around 45,000 people.

Hickory's population density is only 80% smaller than Charlotte's. Hickory township has around 80,000 people, when you include St.Stephens and Mtn. View, and the MSA (Unifour) has nearly 400,000 people.

There are quaint little hollows (circa Deliveranceville, NC) up in the mountains that might not get developed, but until we move to the Chinese growth model of one child per household, then we are going to continue to grow at realistic rates.

Tis the way of this glorious life and it is one of the aspects I appreciate and enjoy.

Penelope said...

Yes, I live in this area and have since 1982 and yes, it is growing. It is still small town America compared to where I grew up, south Florida. I have figured out from your postings that you are one of those that like constant growth, JT. The thing I haven't figured out is why you and those like you don't go to a place that has already grown into what you seem to want. Those places do already exist. We will never have what you describe as a Chinese growth model here, as a certain group of people apparently likes having cheap labor so much that they have turned a blind eye toward our southern border. Can't guess which group I refer toward? Hint, hint, like it or not,the illegal immigration problem was not such a problem eight years ago.

A popular song once said, the best things in life are free...I'll leave it at that. Those of you who don't appreciate what you have can give it away to the birds and bees.

James Thomas Shell said...

Penelope,

I was born here and I have lived here all but 5 years of my life, when I went to college and a year when I moved away to Southport to work at Bald head Island. I want to be around my family. My grandmothers are 94 and 86 and they like me being around and I like being around them.

We had constant growth my whole life, until the fiber optic bust.
There are other places that you could move, if you are against what Hickory natives want.
There are towns like Spruce Pine, Little Switzerland, Jonas Ridge, Edgemont, Collettesville, Happy Valley, and Boomer for people that want to live in little villages around here.

Granted there won't be that easy access to major highways or shopping complexes, but if you truly want that folksy charm of Mayberry, then that is where you need to be.

The majority of the citizens of Hickory want to live in the 21st century. We want our to have economic prosperity and stability.

What is wrong with that?

Anonymous said...

You hit the nail on the head when you said "no wonder we can’t move forward on real issues, when you act like this about a park". I was involved in the neighborhood associations until I found that every meeting broke down into some useless rambling about issues that only concerned one person, the one whining. I know the city wants to get involvement from the younger citizens but I find they just won't sit in a meeting and listen to someone waste their time talking for 20 minutes about their neighbors garbage can. I don't have the answer to this problem but I wish we could find one so this city could move on.

Penelope said...

What's wrong is that you alleged "Christians" are destroying God's creations to satisfy your greed. I am certain He is happy every time He sees people like you bulldozing the blessings He gave us. That is not very Christian to me.

There are so many areas in Hickory that could be rebuilt (try really looking at southwest Hickory) without having to constantly spread. There are so many roads here (think I-40 for one) that need to be rebuilt. It is senseless to build new ones without first fixing what we have. If a new business came visiting this area and the first thing they saw was the highway in this county, they would probably run screaming back to where they came from. If they came into Hickory via exit 123 on I-40 and ended up driving east on Highway 70 at night, any night, I am sure they would be impressed by the run down no-tells and the crack whores that surround them. Fixing southwest Hickory would beautify the city without the urban sprawl and probably create those jobs, jobs, jobs that the Republican politicians always promise and never deliver. There are many ways to grow the economy. Having more bars is not the only way to have more economic growth. Having another Wal-Mart or another Lowe's providing low paying jobs does not cut it. Sure, you number crunchers can say "Look we have more jobs". If they are low paying jobs, who are you fooling?

I am rather used to hearing that I should leave here. It seems to be a rather old argument in this area. It's no wonder y'all don't get many new businesses come here. You run off anyone that doesn't agree with the way it's always been. You want the ol' boy network to stay in place and yet still say you want things to grow so your property values will go up. Right now the economy is in the can. If you want your property to go up, you are going to have to wait, just like everyone else, everywhere in this country. It ain't about local politicians and what they do or say. The entire country's economy is in the toilet.

Oh and no, I am not leaving here. I will fight to make this a better place. My views and yours are different on what that means. I don't believe the majority of Hickory or Catawba County natives agree with your view of what Hickory should be, just the ones that live in your small yuppy-wannabe neck of the woods. If you want growth, entice some big businesses with high paying jobs and quit with the urban sprawl. Put the city council and county commisioners to work.

You should know that I came from someplace that had that urban sprawl you seem to enjoy so much. I do know a little about growth. Change happens there all the time and they have the beach, too. There are still poor people there. There are still bad neighborhoods there. In Hollywood, Florida, just north of Miami, there is a ghost mall, similar to the one here that is currently a furniture mall. It's been empty, save for a few failed ventures over the years, since the early 1980's. It will probably staythat way. I read of some teenagers getting bit by bats at the parking garage there a few years ago.

The government leaders are trying now to find ways to correct ecological damage that has been done to the Everglades. It might have been simpler if they had planned in the first place, but greed clouds judgement.

I have several books on the history of south Florida that would be a great read for you. They detail how that area has gone from boom to bust to boom to bust. People have made fortunes speculating on land in that area and lost the fortunes far quicker than it took to make them. Is that really what you want? If so, search for books on south Florida on Amazon.com . I'm pretty sure I haven't bought them all.

I'll stop ranting for now. If you want me to stop posting here, say so, but if you want to try listening to other views, I've got 'em. I won't kiss anybody's butt though. That ain't me babe. I think I've said it before, but it doesn't hurt to repeat the sentiment, if you never change, everything will remain the same.

James Thomas Shell said...

Penelope,

Have you read this blog? Because I agree with you on about 90% of what you have said. But, we can all see the problems. Some of us want to deal in solutions. And ignoring these problems is not going to make them go away.

I beg you to read this blog. Point out where I am wrong and tell me what your solution is. We are all willing to listen.

Half of good communication, and the most important part, is the ability to listen.