I want to further this discussion and I don't want it to get lost in the shuffle as this site continues to grow. This issue needs to be addressed. We all see so many problems these days, well here is an item that I believe can and should be resolved.
In Harry Hipps earlier article Time to Change the Archaic Law about Public Meeting Notices he espouses his belief that in the internet age we should not be spending money on newspaper ads when cities and towns can communicate directly to their constituents. Newspaper readership is declining and government at all levels have a cost effective way to increase the dialogue and participation with the internet.
It was pointed out to me that the City of Hickory is one of the largest advertising accounts that The Hickory Daily Record has and the city isn't shopping around for competitive rates. Therefore in my opinion, we once again have a situation rife with the appearance, and at least the potential for, conflicts of interest.
It was pointed out by an anonymous poster that they believed that the city is required to publish notices in the publication reaching the largest number in their population. This person believes some shut-ins do not have any real access to the news other than a newspaper delivered daily to their home. As long as there are homebound citizens who do not have internet service and rarely if ever get out of their homes to access it elsewhere, a newspaper delivered to their home is the only means of getting this information.
Harry' rebuttal stated the main issue is better dialogue between government entities and citizens. There is no use to use money to disseminate information that could be sent out virtually free. There is no need to use third party intermediaries when direct communication is available.
Ant A. has a brilliant point that continues this argument in an even more logical direction. Here is what he has to say: "Hipps has a strong case for the internet; moreover, these notices could be added to the City Snippets sent out each month with the water bill alleviating Anon2's concerns about access for those without the internet."
The Hound wants to know: Someone tell me why this can't be done? Between City Snippets that are delivered to everyone in their Utility bill, The Hickory.Gov website, and having a process whereby people can apply to have e-mails sent to their personal inbox; there is no need to spend tens of thousands of dollars advertising in the local paper.
How many people that actually receive the HDR even read those public notices? I am sorry, but that argument is specious to say the least. It is time to move into the 21st century!
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Thursday, January 1, 2009
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12 comments:
I completely agree that few people read the legal notices and though I don't have any concrete data on this I would bet there are few interested parties that read and take action when they see a legal posting. Furthermore, it would seem that if there are some who don't have internet and would like the legal ads, a "phone tree" or even a list mailed directly to persons who sign up for the free service would still be more cost effective that what we are currently doing.
The Community Development Division of the Planning Department administers funds received from HUD as well as from the State of NC. HUD requirements for reports, meetings, etc...anything having anything to do with expenditure of these funds...are that publication of notices in regards to what is happening, ie: taking requests or recommendations for expenditure of the funds, reporting on how expenditure of the funds has been decided, reporting on how the funds really were spent, as well as any changes to the original expected expenditures must be done x amount of times within x amount of days. "City money" is not spent on these advertisements as the HUD funds are used to pay for those expenditures. Other grant monies received by various departments may also have those same stipulations. In those cases the fight is on a state or federal level, not something controlled by the city. Mailing a notice would be the best bet on reaching people with no internet access or "gasp" no phone service...but how do you determine who those people are? They do exist. Who would take on the phone tree responsibility? What about the folks who may for some reason or another have an interest or need to know what is happening in the city. They may not have access to the Snippets. What if half the city signs up to have phone tree notifications or personal mail service...just to have that extra opportunity to be notified of city business? I had many years of experience with this, and I'm seriously not trying to cause trouble so much as just playing devil's advocate. It is quite surprising how many people are out there perusing the papers daily just looking to catch the city in a slip up regarding 'proper notification'. Saving money on advertisement is one place to look regarding cutting costs, but again, a lot of advertising is done using indirect funding to the city. Look bigger though. For instance, how much money is still being wasted on "Fairgrove Business Park"? The use of that property needs some serious rethinking...or just needs to be sold outright.
Ah...I meant to say something like "what about other folks outside the city limits of Hickory who may have some reason or need to know what is going on but do not have city water and therefore do not get the Snippets".
I agree with what you are saying about the Fairgrove Business Park. Sounds a lot like the Downtown Development Association.
On the issue of the notices. I do realize that some of this has to do with the State and Federal Government and we need to move in that direction IMHO. But, the first domino has to fall and that is right here in Hickory.
People need to quit putting the cart before the horse. Show that it works here in Hickory and then move on to Raleigh and then to Washington.
I do not mean to ridicule you by saying that these are specious arguments. In history, we have been here many times before. People said we didn't need to move toward the automobile, because people wouldn't use them. The U.S. didn't need the Highway system, because we had railroads and cars were for the wealthy. We didn't need the highway system, because the average person didn't travel that far. We didn't need the interstates, because people weren't in that much of a hurry.
The time is right around the corner when publications will come on a tablet. Bills are becoming paperless, commerce is becoming paperless, documents are becoming paperless....The newspaper will soon be paperless.
Remember that rolling LED sheet that was rolled across the floor of the Olympic stadium in China. That paper thin plastic material will soon be available for publications. Ever checked out E-Books. E-Papers will eliminate the need for delivery boys (girls) and people will be able to easily download the paper just like we are doing here.
Now, I understand that the older generation would like to stick with the old archaic system, but it is time to move on to the new century. I think this is another issue about control.
We should not be gearing our world toward yesterday. We should be gearing it towards tomorrow.
Just to let you know, Harry and I aren't going to give up on this until it is implemented. This needs to happen. If it takes 10 years, then so be it. It's evolution and all we've got is time.
Oh I don't disagree that there are better ways to do it. And I didn't feel ridiculed...the best ideas come after all areas are fleshed out and usually one person thinking can't do it alone. The City of Hickory's motto many times however can be "But we've always done it this way." The biggest thing, I think, in creating a new way to advertise is in making sure it holds up 'legally' as public notification. I agree with the DDA expenditures not being much help...it's all fluff on the outside, not much inside. FBP..well, if it fails, it will be blamed on the person who originally got the project going. If it works (wait...IF it works?)...it will be because the present caretaker of the Park 'fixed' it. That's the way of life at the City.
I greatly appreciate the information on funding of notices and you have several valid points. I agree that the change is state and federal but they probably won't change unless prodded by some entity with standing and that would have to be a city, county,or regional entity that starts the process and builds a coalition of interests towards that goal.
I understand the additional work that would be placed on city staff; however, I am very skeptical that the multitudes would suddenly show an interest. The internet notices would work fairly simply just as signing up for news groups currently works. The phone tree would require more up front costs but would be paid for in the long haul I believe. And again, given the option of an email or phone message (which most people don't really like) most would choose the email.
As far as the issue of out of city, state or region interests are concerned, yes there are more interested parties than meet the eye, but my feeling is that these are the more savvy, wired people who would probably find it more convenient to use internet. The bottom line is that even the paper is converting to internet and one day there will be no home delivery of a "paper" newspaper. It is just a question of the time it takes for the technology to become the norm. The interesting question is: Can a city like Hickory energize our population to be a catalyst for positive change in ethics, technology, and finance towards the goal of realizing the "of the people, by the people, and for the people" government our forefather envisioned? I think our only hope is that it will swell from the ground level up to the patricians on Capitol Hill.
"The interesting question is: Can a city like Hickory energize our population to be a catalyst for positive change in ethics, technology, and finance towards the goal of realizing the "of the people, by the people, and for the people" government our forefather envisioned?" That IS a very interesting question, and one that deserves an answer. Wish I knew someone who knew the answer, lol. Hickory, in and of itself, is a great place, full of great people. The people paid to make sure it runs as it should, well, there are some really great people who work for the City. How to put this....A lot of the ones who are in a position to push the City forward will not do so because before an idea is presented "what will Council think...how will this make me look to them...will this make me popular with them" is given a thorough thrashing out. Ideas that may be good for the city...ideas that citizens may very well support...are not presented because "well, I don't really like Councilperson X, but he/she won't like this because ________" is given first place in the thinking process. I agree too that changes on a state/federal level would be easier if one could show a positive, beneficial change on a local level, complete with details on how to affect such a change. Add to the repertoire of folks looking for notification...the people who have ventured carefully into the world of computers, have an email account they know how to check, but would sign up for mail or phone notices too just in case that internet thing stops working. March on boys!
Does the City of Hickory have a legal obligation to notify people outside it's limits?
I think the basic legal obligation is to give public notification. There are certain things that require legal notification to affected parties, like a property re-zoning, but that is taken care of by direct mailing to property owners who have property touching property lines of the property to be re-zoned, as well as a sign that has to be posted on said property and a notice in the newspaper. That could affect folks outside the city limits. Many of the departments or divisions, like Community Development, Fire, Police, Recreation, even Public Works, receive grant monies from the state or federal government from time to time, and those monies usually come with a stipulation that it must be advertised "X amount of times, X amount of days before a public hearing on use of the money or approval of receiving the funds, in a newspaper having the greatest amount of circulation amongst the city residents." I forget exactly how it's worded, but to that effect. The short answer I think is no, there is no legal obligation to notify people outside city limits...but a basic obligation to make public notification. There is also the "city jurisdiction" area to consider....the area just outside of the city limits proper but at the same time under certain guidelines, rules and laws set by the city. They would have to be included in phone trees and/or email notifications. Wow. I'm glad I'm just the devil's advocate on this one, and not the major thinkers!
In the case of grant monies received, sometimes the funding includes a budget for advertising within the monies given; sometimes the city has to agree to advertising as a part of the approval process.
We have received e-mails back from "the Powers That Be" in Raleigh that they are checking into this and they think it's a good idea.
We may even (gasp of wonder!!!) get a bill sponsored by one of local representatives on this issue.
Very nice!
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