Newsletter about the City Council meeting of December 6, 2011 -- Addendum on Concealed Carry in Hickory Parks and Recreation Facilities

New Business - Public Hearings:
1. Ordinance Amending Hickory City Code Chapter 21, Section 21-13, “Use of Weapons” Regarding Firearms in City Parks - A new state law passed in the last General Assembly Session will require the City of Hickory to amend its ordinance which bans firearms in city parks. Session Law 2011-268, which became effective December 1, 2011, amends Article 14, Chapter 14 of the General Statutes which pertains to various laws regarding the right to own, possess, or carry a firearm in North Carolina. Staff presented two concealed handgun permit ordinance options to the Parks and Recreation Commission at their November 8, 2011 meeting. The first ordinance, which Staff recommended to be endorsed by the Parks and Recreation Commission, prohibits concealed handguns in certain specified park areas. The second ordinance simply complies with state law and allows concealed handguns in all park areas. Six (6) Commission Members voted to endorse and recommend to City Council the first ordinance option. Four (4) Commission Members voted to endorse and recommend to City Council, the second ordinance option. Staff recommends approval of the local ordinance which prohibits concealed handguns in certain park areas. This public hearing was advertised in a newspaper having general circulation in the Hickory area on November 23, 2011.




Conceal Carry in Parks Link part 1
Presentation by Mac McCleod, the director of the Parks and Recreation Department in Hickory. He addressed the current City Ordinance

It is unlawful for any person with or without a permit to carry a handgun or other weapon concealed or otherwise into municipal buildings, including libraries, city hall, public services facility, city garage, fire stations, city police facilities, or other municipally owned buildings and their respective parking lots; provided, however, that this section shall not apply to federal, state, county or city law enforcement officers when acting in the discharge of their official duties. Any person convicted of violating this provision of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by fine, imprisonment or both in the discretion of the court.

He then went into the legislation enacted by the State of North Carolina, which has been rewritten:

"§ 14-415.23. Statewide Uniformity.
It is the intent of the General Assembly to prescribe a uniform system for the regulation of legally carrying a concealed handgun. To insure uniformity, no political subdivisions, boards, or agencies of the State nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation, town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules, or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun, in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c), on local government buildings and their appurtenant premises. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to prohibit, by posting, the carrying of a concealed handgun on municipal and county recreational facilities that are specifically identified by the unit of local government. If a unit of local government adopts such an ordinance with regard to recreational facilities, then the concealed handgun permittee may, nevertheless, secure the handgun in a locked vehicle within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or area within or on the motor vehicle. For purposes of this section, the term "recreational facilities" includes only the following: a playground, an athletic field, a swimming pool, and an athletic facility."

The state law gives local governments an option.

Option One – Restricted (Not Adopted)  - State Law requires that specific areas be identified

ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 21-13 USE OF WEAPONS OF CHAPTER 21 OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF HICKORY.

WHEREAS, Section 21-13 of Chapter 21 bans the carrying of handguns and other weapons, concealed or not concealed, into all municipal building and facilities, by all persons, other than law enforcement officials; and

WHEREAS, North Carolina Session Law 2011-268 (“S.L. 2011-268”), which goes into effect December 1, 2011, now limits municipalities authority to regulate handguns in parks; and

WHEREAS, S.L. 2011-268 now permits individuals with concealed carry permits to bring concealed handguns into municipal parks and recreational facilities; and

WHEREAS, S.L. 2011-268 also permits municipalities to adopt ordinances prohibiting individuals with concealed carry permits from bring handguns into specifically identified municipal recreational facilities; and

WHEREAS, Section 21-13 of the Hickory Code of Ordinances absolutely prohibits persons from carrying handguns and other weapons openly or concealed into municipal parks and other recreational facilities and their adjacent parking lots; and

WHEREAS, the City Staff and City Council desire to Section 21-13 of the City of Hickory Code of Ordinances to be in conformity with S.L. 2011-268.

NOW THEREFORE, BE IT ORDAINED BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF HICKORY, THAT SECTION 21-13 OF CHAPTER 21 OF THE HICKORY, NORTH CAROLINA, CODE OF ORDINANCES IS HEREBY AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS:

Section 1: Amended

SECTION 21-13 (c)
It is unlawful for any person with or without a permit to carry a handgun or other weapon concealed or otherwise into municipal buildings, including libraries, city hall, public services facility, city garage, fire stations, city police facilities, or other municipally owned buildings and their respective parking lots; provided, however, that this section shall not apply to federal, state, county or city law enforcement officers when acting in the discharge of their official duties. Any person convicted of violating this provision of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by fine, imprisonment or both in the discretion of the court.

SECTION 21-13(d)
Except for the recreational facilities specifically identified in this subsection, it is lawful for any person with a permit to carry a concealed handgun into municipal parks and their respective parking lots.
It is unlawful for any person with or without a permit to carry a concealed handgun into the municipal parks and recreational facilities specifically identified in this subsection. Persons with lawful concealed carry permits may secure a handgun in a locked vehicle within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or area within or on a motor vehicle at the municipal parks and recreational facilities specifically identified in this subsection.

CIVITAN PARK – 460 17 th Avenue NE
Tennis Courts; Outdoor Basketball Court; Softball Field, including spectator seating areas, scorebooth, concession stand and restroom facility; Playground

CLIFF TEAGUE PARK – 1125 C Avenue SE
 Tennis Court/ Playgrounds; Outdoor Basketball Court

FAIRBROOK OPTIMIST PARK – 1560 4 TH Avenue SE
Softball Field, including spectator seating areas; scorebooth/ concession/restroom facility; Playground

GEITNER/ROTARY PARK – 2035 12 th Street Drive, NW
Geitner Building

GLENN C. HILTON JR. MEMORIAL PARK – 2000 6 th Street, NW
Playgrounds; Disc Golf Course

HENRY FORK RIVER REGIONAL RECREATION PARK – 5655 Sweet Bay Lane
Soccer Fields, including spectator seating areas and concession/restroom facility; Playgrounds; Alpine Tower

HICKORY CITY PARK – 1515 12 th Street Drive NW
Tennis Courts

HICKORY OPTIMIST PARK – 751 2 nd Avenue SW
Softball Field, including spectator seating areas, scorebooth and restroom facility; Playground; Outdoor Basketball Court; Tennis Court

JAYCEE PARK – 1515 12 th Street Drive, NW
Baseball Field, including spectator seating areas, scorebooth, batting cage and concession/restroom facility; Outdoor Basketball Court; Playground; Jaycee Park Building

KIWANIS PARK – 805 6 th Street SE
-Baseball Fields, including spectator seating areas, scorebooth, batting cage and concession/restroom facility; Outdoor Basketball Court; Playgrounds; Tennis Court

NEILL W. CLARK JR. RECREATION PARK - 3404 6 th Street Drive, NW
Soccer Fields, including spectator seating areas; Outdoor Basketball Courts; Playground; Neill Clark Main Building; Neill Clark Gym

SOUTHSIDE HEIGHTS PARK – 1400 2 nd Street, SW
Playground; Multipurpose Field; Outdoor Basketball Court

STANFORD PARK – 1451 8 TH Street Drive, NE
Softball/Baseball Fields, including spectator seating areas, scorebooth and concession/restroom facility;
Playgrounds; Skatepark; Outdoor Basketball Court; Highland Recreation Center

TAFT BROOME PARK - 115 7 TH Avenue, SW
Tennis Courts; Outdoor Basketball Courts; Playgrounds; Putting Green; Samuel W. Davis Sr. Multipurpose Field, including spectator seating area, scorebooth and concession/restroom facility; Brown Penn Recreation Center; Ridgeview Recreation Center; Brown Penn Senior Citizens Center

WEST HICKORY PARK – 830 16 th Street, SW
Softball Field, including spectator seating areas, scorebooth and concession/restroom facility; Playground; Outdoor Basketball Court

WESTMONT RECREATION CENTER – 1316 Main Avenue Drive, NW
Westmont Recreation Center; Westmont Senior Citizens Center; Tennis Courts; Outdoor Basketball Court; Outdoor Shuffleboard Courts; Playground

WINKLER PARK – 2500 Clement Blvd, NW
L.P. Frans Stadium; Winkler Activity Center; Winkler Homeplace; Winkler Museum; Playgrounds

SECTION 21-13 (e)
Except as provided in subsection (d), it is unlawful for any person with or without a permit to carry any other type of firearm or other weapons concealed or otherwise into all municipal parks and other recreational facilities and their respective parking lots.

Section 2: Severability.
If any portion of this Section is for any reason held invalid or unconstitutional by any Court of competent jurisdiction, such portion shall be deemed severable, and such holding shall not affect the validity of the remaining portions hereof.

Section 3: Repealed.
All ordinances or provisions of the Hickory City Code of Ordinances which are not in conformance with the provisions of the Amendment occurring herein are repealed as of the effective date of this Ordinance.

Section 4: Effective Date.
The amendments to this Ordinance shall become effective immediately upon adoption.

Option 2 - Unrestricted (Adopted)

ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 21-13 USE OF WEAPONS OF CHAPTER 21 OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF HICKORY.

WHEREAS, Section 21-13(c) bans the carrying of handguns and other weapons, concealed or not concealed, into all municipal building and facilities, by all persons, other than law enforcement official; and

WHEREAS, the North Carolina Session Law 2011-268 (“S.L. 2011-268”) now permits individuals with concealed carry permits to bring handguns into certain municipal properties, including recreational facilities; and

WHEREAS, the North Carolina Senate Bill also permits municipalities to adopt ordinances restricting individuals with concealed carry permit from bring handguns into specified recreational facilities; and

WHEREAS, Senate Bill goes into effect December 1, 2011; and

WHEREAS, Section 21-13 of the Hickory Code of Ordinances absolutely prohibits persons from carrying handguns and other weapons openly or concealed into municipal parks and other recreational facilities and their adjacent parking lots; and

WHEREAS, the City Staff and City Council desire to Section 21-13 of the City of Hickory Code of Ordinances to be in conformity with Senate Bill.

NOW THEREFORE, BE IT ORDAINED BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF HICKORY, THAT SECTION 21-13 OF CHAPTER 21 OF THE HICKORY, NORTH CAROLINA, CODE OF ORDINANCES IS HEREBY AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS:

Section 1: Amended

SECTION 21-13 (c)
It is unlawful for any person with or without a permit to carry a handgun or other weapon concealed or otherwise into municipal buildings, including libraries, city hall, public services facility, city garage, fire stations, city police facilities, or other municipally owned buildings and their respective parking lots; provided, however, that this section shall not apply to federal, state, county or city law enforcement officers when acting in the discharge of their official duties. Any person convicted of violating this provision of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by fine, imprisonment or both in the discretion of the court.

SECTION 21-13(d)
Section 21-13 (c) shall not apply to the premises of municipal parks or other recreational facilities and their adjacent parking lots with regard to the carrying of handguns by persons with lawful conceal carry permits. Persons with concealed carry permits may carry concealed handguns onto the premises of municipal parks and other recreational facilities and their adjacent parking lots. Section 21-13 (d) shall solely apply to the carrying of handguns. It is unlawful for any person with or without a permit to carry other types of firearms or other weapons into municipal parks and other recreational facilities and their respective parking lots.

Section 2: Severability.
If any portion of this Section is for any reason held invalid or unconstitutional by any Court of competent jurisdiction, such portion shall be deemed severable, and such holding shall not affect the validity of the remaining portions hereof.

Section 3: Repealed.
All ordinances or provisions of the Hickory City Code of Ordinances which are not in conformance with the provisions of the Amendment occurring herein are repealed as of the effective date of this Ordinance.

Section 4: Effective Date.
The amendments to this Ordinance shall become effective immediately upon adoption.

Mac addressed the vote of the Parks and Recreation Commission, in which 6 people voted for option one and 4 people voted for option 2. The Mayor asked if any members did not vote or were absent? The answer was 2 members were absent.

Conceal Carry in Parks Link part 2 

Bob Meek, President of the Catawba Valley Wildlife Club, spoke of a resolution adopted at a meeting of the Club's Board of Directors on December 5, 2011:

Whereas the City Council meeting of December 6, 2011 will decide upon the provisions of North Carolina Statute 14 and pro vised by House bill 650 as to whether to restrict the rights of the citizens of Hickory who legally hold concealed carry permits from exercising their right to carry in certain areas owned by and under control of the City of Hickory;

Wheras the Catawba Valley Wildlife Club incorporated with 375 members stands as one of the largest conservation, shooting and hunting sports clubs in North Carolina with members from all walks of life including  doctors, judges, lawyers, dentists, CEOs, small business owners, trades people, farmers, retirees, policeman, firemen, EMTs, and various other working people believing that every citizen has the right to exercise their full Second Amendment right calls upon the Hickory City Council to refrain from making any additional restriction upon this right even though allowed under house bill 650;

Whereas there is a body of evidence that indicates that the criminal elements of society targets thes gun free areas and commit their crimes; and whereas only law abiding citizens would adhere to any additional restrictions imposed by the City of Hickory. Further restrictions would make citizens of Hickory more at risk of becoming a victim of violent crime;

Whereas we believe that every citizen has the right to self defense. Presence of law abiding citizens, who are legally carrying firearms, would enhance the safety of, not endanger, the citizens of Hickory.

Therefore be it resolved that the Officers and Board of Directors of the Catawba County Wildlife Club respectfully request that the city Council of Hickory take no action to restrict the rights of citizens under provisions of North Carolina House Bill 650

Mr. Meek went on to state that he is a concealed carry instructor. It is a requirement for membership to the Club.  The people who have one have taken training in the law, both in use of deadly force and concealed carry. They have demonstrated proficiency with the use of a firearm under State Law and they have had a criminal background check performed by the Sheriff's Department. In the 16 years North Carolina has had concealed handgun carry has been in effect, approximately 399,000 permits have been issued with slightly less than three-tenths of one percent of these permits being revoked for any reason.

Nancy Meek was the next person to speak.  She stated that she is a student of History and has a degree in it. She has studied citizen rights...What happens when citizens have rights and what happens when those rights are taken away. She holds dear the right to defend herself... She spoke of the significant training that permit holders must go through. "We can have no alcohol in our body to carry a firearm.... Police cannot be everywhere... A rising crime rate doesn't look good for Economic Development.

Jay Adams spoke next. When Mac submitted his presentation, he made a recommendation, but there was very little information that supported a logical reason for restricting the carry in certain areas. In 1987 there were 8 states that had  concealed carry provisions. Today there are 49 states that have these provisions. It has been a tremendous success. In 1997,  Professor John Locke of the University of Chicago, an economist, wrote this book. It offers a lot of evidence as to how concealed carry will reduce crime. His research has been validate even though it has been seriously attacked by people on the left. He further went into mental images of the possibility of accidental discharge of a weapon versus firearms as crime deterrents... "There are no statistically relevant reports of weapons misuse of weapons  by concealed license owners... A vote to restrict conceal carry is ideologically anti-gun."

Melvin Woodward simply spoke about the restriction of his rights and wondered where it ends.. The criminals care nothing about these laws...  it means nothing to them. He doesn't understand taking the ability to defend himself away.

Conceal Carry in Parks Link part 3
Sprinkle Lawson next spoke  stated that the bigger issue was where we were not going to allow citizens/families to protect themselves to not protect themselves from criminal elements.  In these restricted areas, we are telling the criminal element that there is no threat or deterrent for their criminal behavior or actions in these zones. " I do not think that is the message you want to send." He spoke about the incident that took place at Virginia Tech a few years ago where  36 students were murdered and 25 were injured because of restricted rights. One concealed carry owner may have been able to save lives.

Mayor Wright next allowed attendees to raise their hands in support of conceal carry. 40 people raised their hands in support.

Speaking in support of the proposal to restrict conceal carry in the Parks and Recreation Centers was David Turman. He stated that he wasn't armed with statistics, but was there to voice his opinion. He spoke of the adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies here. He is personally not aware of crime problems at the parks and recreation centers. The question he poses is why would we introduce to the environment designed  for family fun and recreation, the risk of death or injury from a loaded gun when there is no conceivable gain from the change. He is not anti-gun. he hopes the council can remove the emotion and politics and decide what is in the best interest of the citizens who get the most benefit from our parks and Recreation Centers. Mr. Turman was the only attendee who raised his hand against concealed and carry.

Jay Adams spoke in rebuttal, he understands the sensibilities stating that he does attend soccer events and people do get inflamed at those events, but statistics are important. People started out saying that there would be gunfights in parking lots over parking spaces... everybody would be carrying heat. This is just not the way it works. Less than one percent of the population will even choose to get a permit. Out of that less than one percent, a small fraction will be carrying a firearm at any given time. It is the deterrent value. The notion that a criminal is actually a pretty cowardly figure who carries a firearm to have an advantage. If he goes into an area where a person may be carrying a firearm, his desire to work his mission is chilled. He understands the emotions. The statistics have been carefully scrutinized.

In Sur-Rebuttal he spoke of the issue of liability if an accident happens. he said he doesn't study the topic. He doesn't have the statistics. He is just offering an opinion.

The Council then took up debate with Alderman Danny Seaver moving that the Council adopt what the State of North Carolina states, which was seconded. Alder Patton stated that she personally opposes any firearm for citizens. That is her personal opinion. She dislikes firearms and what it says for our society to have people arm themselves in a park or anywhere else to protect themselves... Her constituents, not cut and paste anonymous e-mails, have had no influence on her decision. Those who identified themselves to voice their opinions, the majority of constituents who she does represent, want to be able to carry firearms in parks.

Conceal Carry in Parks Link part 4
Attorney Crone asked for verification that the Council wanted to enact the second option. City Manager Berry stated that both options are consistent with state law. The Council has to enact one of the options, because the current ordinance is no longer consistent with State law. Alderman Seaver stated that his motion was noi restriction, whatever the State law allows... the Constitution states that the Citizens have the right to bear arms.. it does not say exactly where. Alderman Seaver stated that he had seen videos on Youtube where gangsters and gangster wannabes were flashing guns and some of those happened to be in parks... he added that he didn't think they were all concealed carriers.

Alderman Guess said that 16 years ago, when this law was initiated, that you had many of these same arguments with people saying that our State would turn into the Wild, Wild West with all kinds of crime activity and all kinds of accidental discharges.. That hasn't been true... He made a call to Sheriff Coy Reid who stated that he has no recollection of a citizen with a concealed carry permit being involved in a serious allegation of shooting injury or someone being killed... there have been a few minor incidences. In Catawba County there are slightly over 5,000 people with a concealed carry permit. At one time he was a concealed carry instructor. he knows about the training and what it takes to get the permit. He believes that if people are nrestricted in carrying a firearm, then the criminal element will prey upon that.

Mayor Wright added that he has a concealed carry permit, but he does not carry. He wanted to see what was involved in getting it. You have to spend time, money, and effort to get it. Neither of the options do anything about his number one concern, which is home safety. He thinks that parks are safer with law abiding citizens having the possibility to carry arms versus criminals knowing that citizens don't have the right to have any. The Mayor went on to say that the reason why they aren't arguing against fully unrestricted use, when it comes to some prohibited buildings (such as municipal buildings) is because parks are a different animal.

Alderman Meisner asked about what gun owners have to do when it comes to different local communities. How does the Firearm carrier know? Alderman Lail stated that you have to post restrictions. The default position is that firearms are allowed in city parks and recreational facilities. The Mayor added that posting is a tricky issue unless they are restricted in all park facilities.

Alder Fox commented in dissention that she raised two children who took part in park activities, She is a walker, who walks all over town. She does not feel any safer because someone else is carrying a gun. She talked about taking a courageous stand, because she is opposed to allowing guns in parks. She stated that they have a fine recreational staff and incidents of crime are at a minimum. She had a constituent call who shook their head that this was even a discussion. Mayor Wright stated that he looked at all of the criminal acts in the park and it is a whole lot more than he expected. Alderman Seaver questioned how this would be enforced... It is six pages long and not every area of the parks is prohibited... It will lead to some real sticky situations (with the first option).

The Council voted 6 to 1 (Alder Fox) to allow Concealed Carry Gun Owners to carry their guns in the Parks and Recreation facilities.

The Hound believes that the Council made the right decision here. One has to appreciate Alder Fox standing her ground in her beliefs and Alder Patton listening and following through with the wishes of her constituency. This is a tough issue, but personally I believe in the second amendment. I do believe that it is a deterrent. And I do believe that the North Carolina Legislature believes that it is the right of the citizens of this State to protect themselves.


Those advocates who spoke in favor of the right to carry a weapon as a right came prepared with statistics, logical reasoning, and firm resolve. The one gentleman who opposed the right to carry admitted that he had no supporting material and basically his opinion was based upon feelings. We see this all of the time and, in my opinion, it is no way to make a decision. The people who have permits have expressly shown themselves to be solid citizens who meet steep requirements and obligations in order to obtain the privilege of holding this permit. As was addressed, criminals aren't accountable to these standards. These restrictions would mean nothing to them and give them a playground for their activities.


Peoples' fear of guns is illogical. What else do we ban? Do we ban knives? Do we ban household solvents and other chemicals that can be used to make explosives? There are a multitude of things that can be used as weapons.What would be better is to teach people about firearms and firearm safety  and rid ourselves of the needless anxiety involving firearms. And we need to fully prosecute those who would utilize a firearm as a tool in the commission of an aggressive violent criminal action.